3 Dudes 1 Mic Reviews
Marvel's Echo: A Journey Through Cultural Depths and Superheroes
Dive deep into the heart of Marvel's Echo with us, where cultural authenticity isn't just a backdrop—it's the pulse of the story. My co-hosts Kyler, Jacob, and I peel back the narrative layers and discuss how Echo has set a new standard for Marvel's television pursuits. We tackle the pacing of the pilot, suggesting more space for Echo's rich backstory would have served well. Our engagement with the series' Native American elements doesn't stop at mere appreciation; it stokes a fire in us to learn more about the indigenous cultures that thread through the show's core.
The show's commitment to inclusivity, illustrated by its use of sign language, brings a fascinating dynamic to character relationships. Join us for a conversation that's as much about the vibrance of superhero narratives as it is a tribute to the cultures and stories that inspire them.
Dive deep into the heart of Marvel's Echo with us, where cultural authenticity isn't just a backdrop—it's the pulse of the story. My co-hosts Kyler, Jacob, and I peel back the narrative layers and discuss how Echo has set a new standard for Marvel's television pursuits. We tackle the pacing of the pilot, suggesting more space for Echo's rich backstory would have served well. Our engagement with the series' Native American elements doesn't stop at mere appreciation; it stokes a fire in us to learn more about the indigenous cultures that thread through the show's core.
The show's commitment to inclusivity, illustrated by its use of sign language, brings a fascinating dynamic to character relationships. Join us for a conversation that's as much about the vibrance of superhero narratives as it is a tribute to the cultures and stories that inspire them.
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode. I am your host, john, with me, or my co-host Kyler.
Speaker 2:Yo.
Speaker 1:And Jacob, how's it going? Today we'll be talking about Marvel's echo and It'll be a spoiler podcast, so if you haven't watched it, Well we're gonna be spoiling stuff, so go watch it, go watch it. So the first thing I guess we could start off with is um, I Think, how did everyone feel about the show in general is good, bad, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 3:I'll start. I'll just say I enjoyed the show. I didn't really know what to expect going in, other than we had just seen the character at the end of the Hawkeye series and it kind of just picked up right where that left off. And you know, it's just a short, concise, like five episodes, kind of like a mini series, and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I enjoyed it as well. I didn't really, I mean, I didn't go in expecting like anything crazy. I didn't have a high bar for it, but it was still enjoyable to watch. I don't think I really had too many negatives, but I liked it overall.
Speaker 2:I also did not have any expectations going into it and I was pleasantly surprised and thoroughly enjoyed it and I Think it's one of the best shows they've put out so far, if not the best well, surely it's between that one season one and two. We so haven't done that podcast, so season season two was. Season two was good.
Speaker 1:Yes, who is amazing?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I liked it. I thought it was as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah so I'm glad to hear that you and that you thoroughly enjoyed it, because I do think this probably does rank, you know, on the higher end of the Marvel TV shows thus far, for me as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't count Netflix, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I only have one one issue with it.
Speaker 3:All right, what is that?
Speaker 2:Just the first episode, I Feel like they should have split that into two episodes and maybe flush things out or rewrite a little bit. Felt kind of Just weird, kind of scatterbrained a little bit montage. I mean it works, but yeah, it was like jumping all over the place kind of confused at times, felt they could have had like a Young echo episode and then Ego episode and then Present day echo episode, so like a higher first episode where she's still like a child and they really, yeah, I need like a child through, like Hawkeye maybe, so it was like jumping from scenes we've seen before on Hawkeye and then like scenes that maybe got from Hawkeye and they're mixing with new stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm like what am I watching? Is this supposed to be like a recap episode? I yeah weird.
Speaker 3:I felt that way as well watching the first episode, but I kind of also thought I was like I think, john, you brought up the point not on the podcast, but you brought up a point that like the Marvel spotlights were maybe supposed to be, kind of like you can just kind of jump in and watch without Having seen the rest of the stuff.
Speaker 1:Apparently. Yeah, that's how they're supposed to, but they chose kind of echo, which incorrectly, since you, it is connected to everything else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it might not have been the best choice, but also, like I did get that thought during the first episode, I'm like, oh, I guess if you, if you missed Hawkeye or you didn't watch it, like I guess you'd kind of be getting filled in on this character's backstory and like, yeah, and they gave you everything you needed to know about it.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I forgot about some of the Hawkeye.
Speaker 2:Stuff was like oh yeah, that did happen yeah that's you saying spotlight right now, just maybe it kind of felt like I forgot the name of it. Is it legends the like? Recap.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I kind of felt a little bit like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're just flashing and everything at you. Like this happened than this happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like oh Okay, yeah, so we all enjoyed it. Cool podcast over.
Speaker 2:See you next time kind of play God.
Speaker 1:So I mean, the first thing we could talk about is how does everyone feel? Kind of so the whole show is obviously based around Echo being Native American and all the Native American themes going on. How do we feel about that? Because for me at least I Besides, like you know, in school and learning about that through history, it was actually cool to look at some of the stuff, was cool to See some of the culture. When they did show it I Wanted but I thought I mean it like they kind of wove it pretty, pretty well with the character.
Speaker 2:In my opinion is that a pun, because she got.
Speaker 1:Moving together Intended pun not intended.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like, I Like what they did and it got me I don't know. I've been like recently kind of interested in like the origins of people and like migration and how like like Spanish and English is like spread around the world and stuff they got me like really wondering about, like looking into after the fact of like how America was like Originally and like who originated from here. I feel like I kind of want to do a whole podcast talk about like the origins of like Mexico, since your Mexican John and things like that. But it was really cool to see some of that stuff and like they In. They took a lot of like the native. Was it a Choctaw tribe? The?
Speaker 1:name of.
Speaker 2:Choctaw. Yeah, there's like Choctaw mythology, it's like a kind of like Greek mythology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do a lot of this and then they they use that for the what if episode to for a kohori Kohori yeah, that is a different tribe, though they are similar.
Speaker 3:But like it just doesn't know it's mohawk. Maybe it's story.
Speaker 2:Mmm. Yeah, I Was like looking at stuff for an hour after I finished it.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:It's no really.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed being able to look at it because I don't know I maybe it's just cuz you're not really exposed to kind of stuff like that through when you're watching like Marvel shows. So it was cool to look at, it was cool to learn some stuff. Obviously didn't go too deep into it, but it kind of gave me the same vibes of like Black Panther with oh my god, yeah, no, no, no, like just the Focusing like on another culture and being able to see that stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I think it paid off really well in that, that final episode with just kind of you know seeing Everyone echoing through as they said in the show, and then you know the reveal of like the suit that's kind of like Representative of her tribe and it's just. I think it all paid off in the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd say so I think if we pivot to like the, the stuff that was kind of weird, like I wrote it down as an origin myth and then at before, like the rest of the show, because it happens in episode one, I was also like, is this like something else? Like their aliens technically or something, what's going on? But definitely felt more of like an origin myth. But that opening scene was sick. That was like really surprised me because I, like, had no expectation.
Speaker 2:I was expecting to be like street level Hawkeye, daredevil stuff and you open with this like guardians of the galaxy, weird Alien trying cosmic feeling super intrigued yeah.
Speaker 1:It was weird and like I'm wondering. Obviously they showed us here, and if we see more, as long as maybe Echo stays around, I'm wondering if there's gonna be more of like okay, so that's their origin myth, obviously, but like is it like these are Cosmic beings that came from somewhere else? Like are they gonna expand on it or anything? Cuz um, yeah, either way, like if they do or don't. It was so cool to look at. It was trippy as hell, though.
Speaker 3:It was definitely be cool if we got that fleshed out at some point and learning more about you know where they actually came from or the true origins, but yeah, yeah, no, speaking of the first episode that's.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's like a minor complaint, but I go mom dying. They kind of like just like brushed over it. There was like no emotion to it.
Speaker 2:Bro, like at the, you just reminding me of something I wanted to talk about I Don't know before. This is related to the mom death scene. She said there's no emotion and they kind of brushed over. But they revisited it towards the end of the, the series. They and yeah, I don't, this is I don't know. This is like my writing mind, going in and feeling the gaps. But did you get the sense that Say established that her mom was a healer, that her mom healed echo to keep her alive from the car crash? That cross your mind at all?
Speaker 1:When they were showing that I kind of did, because they also have a scene with her when, like present day, echo goes back to Like I don't know what it whatever you want to call it a spirit trip or whatever what she's talking about. Then you're talking about. Yeah, what she got, that yeah, and that's why I think it sure, like there was some dialogue that triggered my mind.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, I had the exact same thought. Okay, but like they don't show it kind of because it's also like I Mean the whole show was kind of like it comes to a, like the high point of the show was just kind of, you know, letting go and moving on from grief and trauma. So, like at the same time I got like, oh, maybe she healed her before she died. But I also felt like it was focusing more on like I'm gonna heal your trauma, because this is kind of where it started.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree with that, John.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's like when it was, when she was talking to her. We'll say, in the real world it like put that idea in my mind like triggering motion kind of got me choked up, and then like a couple minutes later puts a scene Like oh no, they're not gonna show it, are they? Then? They never did. They kept it very, very vague.
Speaker 1:I would almost think she might have not, but who knows?
Speaker 2:yeah, I don't know if they were trying to do that or not, but but the thought cross. Yeah, definitely yeah cross my mind and definitely triggered some emotion, at least later on. But good, john.
Speaker 1:Going back to your original question, Were you kind of saying that they like brushed over it, as in we didn't get to see, like a kid, maya's reaction, kind of and like Because I mean it's just, I mean I think acting like what they're told and stuff, but like the only one that has a true like Emotional reaction is the grandma, the mom and then like I'm assuming it's her dad was just like. He seemed like he was a little like struggling to find his words when talking to my though.
Speaker 3:Like you could tell he was like dancing around the topic of like I need to tell her, but it's like hard for me to say it. Yeah, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 1:That's where I'm like they should have had maybe showing something like at least some negative reaction, because I mean, I guess, you know, everyone grieves differently, but I mean Well, they showed Maya like.
Speaker 2:Wailing in the car, but then she didn't know that her mom was dead after the fact. Right, she just like her. Yeah, she kept. She was asking her dad like, like.
Speaker 3:Can we tell mom and you?
Speaker 1:could tell he was struggling with the words.
Speaker 3:Of like, how do I tell her that? Like? The answer is no, like you can't, yeah, so I don't like like where you think in Maya should be Emotional.
Speaker 2:In that things, I feel like everyone was Grieving. I.
Speaker 1:Don't know, I thought so, but it also, kind of, like I said, everyone grieves differently. But yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe I was just expecting like having a scene where like she's crying or something or I Don't know. Yeah, it's just like it was just a minor thing. Nothing like pivotal Doesn't kill the show for me, obviously, but thank goodness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I Will say they did kind of like and I think this cuz that episode, though that's so much going on it felt very fast-paced, I was saying earlier, but I did feel like they kind of rushed through the whole origin of her leg getting Chopped off almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they just give you a scene where, like she's bleeding and then then she has no leg.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, the car crash, at least to form on. I remember you could see like a huge piece of glass in her leg, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then it cuts to.
Speaker 3:The hospital. Yeah, so I guess I guess that was enough, for for some they're just like okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it Definitely establish what happened, but it felt brushed over unnecessary. Oh, okay, kind of just like nose. Oh yeah, this happens is so yeah, that answers that question.
Speaker 1:I know what's it. Yeah, like I know it's a kid, but I feel like, even as a kid, you just lost your leg. I feel like I'd be freaking the heck out.
Speaker 2:Exactly. That's why I think like they could have maybe split that into two episodes and fleshed out a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe that's where I'm also coming from with the emotion thing is just like, just like yeah it's a normal day, guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is just the toughest child you have ever met, so that the leg actually didn't phase her. She said I'm gonna get a better leg now, legit.
Speaker 1:Moving on from that, um, I Gotta say I was not expect, because I didn't. I haven't heard anything. I just remember you, kyler, actually been like hey, echo comes out. I was just, oh yeah, I forgot about this. I was pleasantly surprised to get a little cameo from Daredevil.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was nice, that was nice but he was fake unexpected, he was CG Huh.
Speaker 1:And it's a oh gee, daredevil, not she hulk Daredevil she well, mean he was doing the CG.
Speaker 3:Back. That would have been before yeah that was like a flashback to Netflix Daredevil spoilers. Yes, all right well, I also are not oh.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they established a timeline or not. I know they updated on Disney Plus, but and a hawk eye, or Ronan I guess at the time, was in that scene, so I don't know if that's quite Netflix.
Speaker 1:Well, cuz that was before Ronan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's no, no Daredevil would have.
Speaker 2:So this would have been have to be post Netflix, but not oh yeah, cuz Ronan was after endgame or not after, but Infinite war.
Speaker 1:I guess during the blitz yeah. Also, yeah, I was thinking they were gonna mention the blip thing, but they did not. So Well, guys, I thought they.
Speaker 3:I only watched. You know the end of Hawkeye and kingpin. You know kingpin got shot in the face. So can you remind who's the who's the villain in this one?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, he's not dead.
Speaker 3:No, he's not, not the king pin is just taking bullets to the face like a champ out there.
Speaker 2:He's a boss, bro kingpin. They that might be my favorite, like I don't know villain or they did an amazing job writing. Yes, and they did an amazing job writing his story and kind of Validating his Netflix stories and his Hawkeye story, making everything just come together and like work. He was intimidating, but they like went in and like, don't they like explored?
Speaker 2:his psychology and yeah, kind of humanize him to, but he's still like just Super fucked up from his duck. We swear on the sped cut podcast. Yeah yeah, like screwed up from killing his dad and then all that like generational trauma Spilling in and like wanting to kill echoes dad and all this stuff like it. It was so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes back to like the whole show being about trauma and you know, letting go, yeah, I. Mean if we jump to the end. I know we'll save that for later. But yeah, fisk was Was very cool to see. Again. It was cool to see because I don't I don't remember Hawkeye Fisk, but I always he.
Speaker 3:I remember it was like a little different and like kind of Wacky maybe I don't remember it Seemed a little bit more comic bookie in, like his appearance and like he takes an arrow like straight to the chest and like and Kate's like, like, like what just happened. But, yeah, I feel like they did get back to like maybe a little less comic bookie fisk. That's like just very intimidating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it was.
Speaker 3:I, yeah, I really enjoyed the the end. I know you said you didn't want to like jump straight to that, but the trauma healing and like the when my uses her powers to yeah.
Speaker 1:I heal, I Was, I did go ahead.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say I was Part of me, like the whole back of my mind when I was watching that scene is like you know, she was back like in his mind kind of, and like they're in the room and like he can hear his, his mom, being beaten. I Thought she was gonna brutally yeah, brutally brutally, by the way. I Thought when she was trying to heal in there I thought he was gonna like overpower at that scene and we were gonna see like just how Traumatized he is from that and like he was almost going to be like no, and he was gonna like hit her in that world and then it was gonna knock back to the real world and like sending her back, like that was.
Speaker 2:That's like him beating his, his mom, like being just like his dad. I could be like it, just effective.
Speaker 3:But like in the back of my mind. I was like his trauma is like seems so deep and like he's like such you know he's got all this anger pent up from. You know these past like childhood traumas that like I thought like one attempt Wasn't going to be enough and I was fully expecting him to just like knock her back in that scene and then like Now set it back up for something else.
Speaker 1:He's been like he's. He is his trauma, like the character.
Speaker 2:He keeps saying the dad's coughs like the hammer, where the hammer that's like the wall that eventually in the Netflix one is.
Speaker 1:He has it hang hung up like a meaning yeah, speak it. So, speaking of that, when she's trying to heal him, and then she's like give me the hammer, let go. And he's like I'm not this person who you think I am, stuff like that I almost feel. So they cuz it and he ends up getting it like cuts away, like it ends. But I almost feel like she might be started to get him but he might have not fully.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do think, yeah, I do think he pulled away and like that's why I like he was kind of afraid and not fully. He was like, yeah, I read, he was like stunned. Yeah, what do you do why?
Speaker 2:am I having feelings right now?
Speaker 1:Cuz. Yeah, immediately he's like what did you do to me? And I almost feel like like, yeah, like you said it, it shouldn't have happened in like one try. But I also feel like you never actually see him give her the hammer and he's still freaking out. So maybe it's just that the fact that she brought it all up to the surface, yeah, you had to try to deal with it and Clearly he didn't want to let go.
Speaker 1:and I remember watching that scene. I was like, ah, like in my head I'm like, if you take away his trauma, like who does he become? Because in my like at the moment I was like does he have a lesser character, like going forward?
Speaker 3:I don't think, because yeah, I think, I think I think he broke free a little bit, like the healing process kind of started, but then then he like pulled, pulled back and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, I don't think so. That yeah, I gotta be the mayor New York baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's running from there it was in his dad, a politician too, don't remember.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think so. I don't swear that didn't look like a politician's home.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know if he.
Speaker 1:I feel like it was run down.
Speaker 2:It was the Daredevil show, I don't know. Maybe it wasn't a politician, but he tried to run for something or something, I think.
Speaker 1:I think a daredevil you did, and Daredevil put a wrench in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like outed it, outed some of this stuff.
Speaker 1:But I don't know if it was them it might have.
Speaker 3:I almost feel like it was a mayor again, but I might be wrong. Well, guess what might have been something else really a senator or something.
Speaker 2:Bill fist, political candidate for third district council in the New York City.
Speaker 1:Oh nothing, not as big as a mayor, but I don't know, he's just such a presence and like Just knowing that any any little thing can make him unhinged, as we saw If we jump to like. Well, just like we saw that he's just like super unhinged and he's just, he's just a beast. Because I mean like, so, like the entire show and we show whenever Fisk is around, and like Myon fist, their relationship, it's honestly like he's just manipulating her but at the same time, when you see like the flashbacks where she's younger, he is protective of her, but it's like like because he's fist gets protective in such a violent way.
Speaker 2:That's for his own.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, mainly kind of like Almost like he put himself in his, in her shoes in that moment, like the scene I'm talking about is the flashback when she wants ice cream, but she can't she can't verbalize it because she's deaf, which I feel like we didn't mention, but that's like a kind of Part of her whole characters that she's deaf, and then Fisk just beats the hell out of the, the ice cream vendor, and then she kicks him too, and then she.
Speaker 3:Joans, in now.
Speaker 1:Oh no Making a monster yeah which Part of me is like is he what did he? Fully manipulator on purpose, or was it just like? This is the way I 100% on purpose. Yeah, on purpose 100%, but like In for his own promise stuff. I'm curious what I'll move like. The character of development for Fisk is because I I just don't see him like. Even if he's healed a little, I don't see him being less violent, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Before he like is 100% truly healed and like a nice guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think that. I remember recalling old the netflix shows it's just like, even with punisher, he like he's, he's just a beast. He went toe to toe with punisher for like like 10 seconds, but Still.
Speaker 3:So I didn't mention violence?
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I was not, cuz I'm like alright Disney plus show, you know it's still for kids. But man, I Was not. I was not expecting all the the violence stuff. I Didn't think it was that violent. A street vendor to death?
Speaker 2:Oh he wasn't that he was just like. No he was at the end like his head when Maya kicked him and walking away he's like but I don't think fish is gonna leave him there, like I think, like that guy's true dead. Are you sure, Right he?
Speaker 3:did like release some like gasps of air when Maya came over.
Speaker 1:Then we go back to the before she fought Daredevil. She like snaps some neck.
Speaker 3:Yeah some dude yeah but I mean like five bullets to the back.
Speaker 1:Wait, not only that the one guy gets Fuck the roller rinks by dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the most mature thing I think that was in the show was him getting Shot and that blood coming out.
Speaker 1:But I mean I tangent Zane the villain, like the henchman guy.
Speaker 2:Wait, is that? Is that the like flamboyant dude?
Speaker 1:The roller skate villain, okay, the flamboyant dude.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:The guy with the RPG suspender dude yeah yeah, what do you?
Speaker 1:I thought he's gonna get a sniper the whole time Before they are like what are they planning to do?
Speaker 3:He was like in case of emergency, I'll have an RPG ready.
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna RPG everyone. No, but it's. It's not violent at all.
Speaker 3:No yeah pretty pretty not violent.
Speaker 2:I mean it's violent, and much more violent than the other shows, but it's not like like, like.
Speaker 3:I mean, like I'm looking at their devil and other parents.
Speaker 2:Actually they can't, because he can't see it. If your profile's on a TV MA.
Speaker 1:Was it the roller rink scene when they did a TV MA?
Speaker 2:because I didn't notice that they had the discretion every episode.
Speaker 1:Oh, did they? I mean like back in the Netflix shows.
Speaker 2:They were like chopping dudes body parts off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's like. That's what I'm thinking, like when you say violent bro, punisher wasn't gory. What Punish?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I mean. Maybe it's cuz King Pines in this and it that's tied to it.
Speaker 3:That's what I think of when I'm thinking compared to everything else King pins been into pretty tame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know we're bouncing around a lot, but it's fine. Um, it was, I did think you know. So she, you know, at the end of Hawkeye she shoots King pain, thinks he's dead. I did find it interesting that her plan like her kind of character motivation, if you want to say that Was that she wanted to be. She wanted to be like wean. Well, she says it queen queen pin.
Speaker 1:I did find that interesting, like she wanted to take over, like I almost would have thought that she wanted would like try to Do something completely different, but I guess that the whole Hawkeye arc didn't really change her as a person. Yeah, I thought, you know, after being manipulated by someone and someone you think is a monster, you'd want to change. But she's like knock, I'll just take over.
Speaker 2:I don't think. Well, she was kind of still like in pain and suffering. I don't think she was like truly Changed at that point in time. She understand like the extent of her manipulation, everything that King pins done.
Speaker 1:That's in how Her whole, her whole native history, and just you know, learning how the world works, becoming a good person, becoming a hero it was interesting to see how her powers manifested, because she wasn't in control of it at all and they I mentioned it a bunch of times that that ancestors randomly will pop in and help me, don't need help.
Speaker 1:Until the end, when she like kind of I think it was like yeah, she has full control of the powers. Which, speaking of her powers, what do you think that was okay. I mean, it's not like the flash, this thing, but it's yeah, I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2:I saw, necessarily 100% understand what they are.
Speaker 3:I know the hands can glow yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't, you can fight, I don't understand the. I mean, yeah, understand the fighting, understand the healing, I don't understand. I mean I guess she can shoot to, but like Is she always have those or she like, amplify them and call the ancestors like a good ultimate. I.
Speaker 1:Think that what trips us up is one. The ending is just like you see all the ancestors there, but I think it's more meant to be like you're taking all their maybe skills.
Speaker 3:They're there with. Maybe they're with you in spirit, you know so like how they showed up.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, she's already been like a killer and yeah, I mean all over her hand-to-hand and shooting skills.
Speaker 3:You know she's got from just working with him for however many years.
Speaker 1:If I did, maybe it's more like an enhancement and then, besides, like she was able to activate the powers, the same like Whatever you trade powers, you want to call on her grandma and cousin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they were able to break, I think kind of knock them, sock them. I.
Speaker 2:Think the thing that trips me up is all the power she's like had, I believe, except the healing one.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well even I like she was able to mentally project, basically I.
Speaker 2:Talk about like seeing the actual ancestors. Wait, were they?
Speaker 1:No, when she goes in a fist spring oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:the healing, yeah, it's like a whole new power, it's like a whole trippy new dimension aspect thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool to see, though I don't know, is okay. Powers, I guess if, even though they're not really defined, bro.
Speaker 3:If she can go into anybody's past and help them heal their trauma, she should become a therapy.
Speaker 2:Oh, she's gonna team up with Wanda oh fight.
Speaker 3:Wanda? No, I don't think she could.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's why I like. Well, she can get in her head, okay, I? Think that's why I like both these shows so much they like deal with trauma, do you have?
Speaker 3:some trauma. Myelopasta help you get over your past traumas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know a psych major.
Speaker 3:Do you? Because you do.
Speaker 1:I super like I'm.
Speaker 2:Going back to fish and you said you want to talk about this earlier. The ASL stuff I I liked the storytelling device of Using sign language and Fisk and the interdu I don't know if the interpreter was there in the previous shows, but she was definitely prominent in here and as a time when I'm like well man, this dude says he cares about his kid or Maya so much and all this stuff, but he doesn't even bother to learn how to actually talk to us interpreters.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love when she was like you, didn't even take the time to learn.
Speaker 1:Was like oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Tyler also want to point out. You said that the, the sign language like interpreter, was Present in this show very much, but I also wanted to point out that they were all different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in her final. Yeah, the final lesson is Awesome well, no. They were all different. Yeah, I know this, that interpreters.
Speaker 3:So I I think we were meant to assume that he kills them all after they leave for the night.
Speaker 1:She's. Yeah yeah, and I mean it is perfect cuz he kills there, not in front of her, but like like oh, walk out the hall and like, oh look, we've got all this.
Speaker 3:We got all this plastic.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't even dexter, yeah. I didn't even realize she's dexter. You can't even hear, yeah.
Speaker 3:She doesn't know that they just died.
Speaker 2:You know, you're crying for her life yeah. That's even more dude. They made his character so complex and like, just fucked up, I don't care. Actually talk to her. I don't care about these. That's yeah, damn.
Speaker 1:I Did see online that people were complaining about kind of the wave, so Kind of the way fist came back and like how his plan was just Join me and like expected to her to, and his plan was just to leave. What she ends up doing at the end anyway. I thought that was okay, like I didn't really see an issue. I do think well, like after you learn everything, how I mean he thinks that she's the same as her and that she's under her thumb, so like, and she's like such a great asset in the fact that, like I know she's like probably is like one of his top assassins or whatever Get shit done people, so it would be in his character to show up and be like, yeah, you're gonna come back or what, yeah, I agree it, and then totally in line, and then why he took it so like personally that she's like nah, but it goes back.
Speaker 1:I think that part when he's when she says no and like he Gets, gets mad and kidnaps his, her family. I think it goes back to how I Can't remember his name but the roller rink owner. Henry I think her uncle Henry how he mentioned that Fisk, when he tried to get out, was like yeah, cuz he thinks power is what People obey him for and powers yeah.
Speaker 2:So if he establishes power over Maya, he's gonna get what he wants. That's obviously not true. And then he likes to dig into his little trauma and just kill Everyone's family to make him feel like he doesn't thinks that'll make him succumb to him. It's a. It was really cool to see the Uh, his, his power and you can pretty much do whatever he wants. The whole sign language interpreter live Real-time.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's when he puts on the earpiece. That was cool because I was like how are they gonna talk?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a cool time you'd introduce it to when you really want to like dial in and Hear the dialogue.
Speaker 1:I got like read. Yeah, and it was like almost interesting, like a Maybe, like a story device where it's like, hey, this is gonna be a personal Talk, it's just between us, or him at least attempting to be more personal, and she's just not having it Pouring the wind down the sink, yeah well, it's like he cares enough to get this device made, but not enough to just actually learn the sign language.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 3:That's just a reminder to her. Being like he would rather take all the steps to make this like high-tech thing to talk to me rather than Just learn sign language.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, the sign language throughout the whole show was actually like I didn't have an issue with it. That was fine. I didn't. I can imagine what from.
Speaker 2:I couldn't either. I was gonna say I can't imagine people having problems with it. Now I feel like Subtitles and you know uptick like anime and stuff, like it's not as much of a barrier.
Speaker 3:Yeah, don't these people watch anime when you have to read everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what. It's a bit of different subject. When I went and saw Godzilla minus one, I was like really surprised how many people were there in the theater. I was like I don't think year-olds and families like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd say the majority of people don't have a problem with subtitles at this point.
Speaker 1:I'm not a fan of subtitles, but I Also like don't care if they're there, but for this it was fine. It was also cool to see, like when they would mute the audio. So, you're like in like shoes.
Speaker 2:You see your yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, those are good. I like those things.
Speaker 1:Try to think. I Feel like we got a lot Holy surface. I know we didn't talk about what was.
Speaker 2:Uh, what's her, her cousin or brother's name? I want to say pork chop. That's not oh biscuit, biscuit. Yeah, he was cool. Yeah, I love bro. I was dying when grandma was delivering the mail and talk about our car, yeah.
Speaker 3:Doesn't notice like I'm gonna keep going.
Speaker 2:This phase, they just, they just held on. It was.
Speaker 3:And then he's like he was like negotiating the price of his own PlayStation down, trying to get money for the yeah, all right, hundred dollars for the place.
Speaker 1:Now he was great. It's a good side character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like. That's why I like all the characters in this show are like really Well written and they all, they all had like their own little. They all had like actual yeah, that person had, they had actual desires. It wasn't like a just character, pretty much just to be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, henry was good. I think Bonnie was a little like under, but she also was like, not really that Important in the fact that we needed her backstory because they could have made Bonnie more, like you know, integrated with some of the future stuff, being like basically best friends with Maya.
Speaker 2:But Y'all want to hear something crazy, potentially a spoiler. I thought I spoiled the series because I looked this up like an episode three or whatever. Uh, Bonnie Is is she has another role in the MCU.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do know what the role is.
Speaker 2:You do know.
Speaker 3:John, you know.
Speaker 2:I don't, I do not know. She voices a character. He was also Native American.
Speaker 1:Oh, does she voice? Uh, the other one, Kahori.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought I was gonna be a reveal later on in the show, but they they didn't that she's Kahori.
Speaker 1:Wait, are you sure they're not the same tribe?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cory's mohawk.
Speaker 3:Oh, John was about to try to use that as fuel for his argument earlier that like same tribe Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Uh no, I don't know. Yeah, like when they did the, the powwow and tamaha, or whatever the place is called, all that watching, all that, like the, the dressing, the dresses and all that or whatever the they're their ceremonial garb that was cool to look at and then how um Maya blends in with it.
Speaker 3:With her new threads. When then?
Speaker 1:there's like a shot where, um, so for the origins, I guess, of the tribe, how it's like a they're in a cave right and then the water kind of makes like a logo. There's a shot during that, um, the powwow, that overhead shot that the people are arranged in the same. Oh, really oh same logo yeah, nice, it was just cool little, that was a little just a little nice touch. Yeah, nice touch.
Speaker 2:I thought about things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, this is a good show. I'd like I said I went in no expectations and pleasantly surprised, but I think, like they put it in the work to make it Pretty good, I'd say I Don't know if I'd call it standalone, but it, I mean, stands alone pretty well, like, yeah, it sets up certain sequels, but it's not like they're gonna be a direct sequel to echo.
Speaker 3:I think you could. Yeah, you could watch it as a stand-alone.
Speaker 1:It's something I think that people have wanted from, from Marvel, where nothing's Like I gotta watch this to watch the next one.
Speaker 2:You know it's crazy Same people are gonna want the same people, but equal as many people that won't watch it because it's not connected to anything.
Speaker 3:There's no. There's no Multiverse in this one, yeah.
Speaker 2:You mean, I'm not gonna see an Avenger in here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, why didn't Hawkeye show up? He hates Kingpin.
Speaker 2:We're spider-man, they're in New York. Well, I say we're in New York, but no, why didn't spider-man follow Kingpin?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, he's, he's oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he could have. He has Robert Downey jr Tech.
Speaker 3:Exactly All, right guys. We never did a podcast one topic. Oh, we did. Oh, okay, go ahead then.
Speaker 1:And it's actually one you brought up, I think, oh okay, that's where I was about to head right now.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, let's see. Well, I was gonna say we didn't. We didn't do a podcast on the Marvel's, but in the post credit scenes we have not what oh what?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it is never mind, it is we had.
Speaker 3:We had Kamala Waiting, kind of creepily wait. What in Cape bishops? What, oh?
Speaker 2:You're talking about the Marvel's after credits.
Speaker 3:Are you talking about the Marvel's?
Speaker 2:after credits or yes.
Speaker 1:Echo.
Speaker 2:Okay, I thought there was another one in Echo. I'm like what I mean.
Speaker 1:So wait, there's after credits and echo. The mayor, the mayor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the plain see. I thought okay, so I thought I was another one Okay. Kamala is waiting for Kate Bishop and she introduces this like concept of creating her own team of Avengers and setting up for the young. Avengers Now. Do we think my is too old for that, or does she? Does she find her way into a younger, but not the youngest Avengers team here?
Speaker 1:Avengers I Think she's part of, she's gonna be part of it, but I think young the term young is more At this just like the new yeah the new, younger, younger people not necessarily like kids, then I just came Kate.
Speaker 3:Kate and Kamala are both like kids, kind of like they're like.
Speaker 1:Kamala's like out of high school.
Speaker 3:Kate's like. I think she said she's like 20, something like young 20s. Yeah, she college yeah how old is hold is Maya. Maya Seems like she's like a 30 year old out there, but maybe she's not.
Speaker 2:Well, do we?
Speaker 3:do we have, do we think we're gonna see in Maya in any sort of team ups with our? I think?
Speaker 2:oh, and the female heroes. Yeah, electra, cuz I think she's gonna be in like just the the street level daredevil Section yeah, I'm electric comes back in.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't know, the recapture something, oh, Okay, yeah, I do think was seen, maybe my again in the daredevil story for sure. But do we think because probably you said there's people out there that only wanted, if it connects to the, the greater universe, definitive, is Maya gonna be in the bigger universe here?
Speaker 2:I'll say yeah, cuz like in an Avengers movie, I imagine Daredevil is gonna show up and like other thing other.
Speaker 3:I don't know, man. I was hoping the agents of shields showed up in every Avengers movie. Still waiting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they weren't can.
Speaker 1:Nobody wants quick.
Speaker 3:Bro. Yeah, why aren't they asking the immortal iron fist to help with all these like worldly threats, like he's immortal?
Speaker 1:For real. Last time we saw him, he had two guns.
Speaker 2:Using his powers, I would have gone crazy if he was in the after credit scene. I hope he's in daredevil, oh.
Speaker 1:My gosh, I don't even I. I think they're like nah, but who knows?
Speaker 3:If it's a reboot like that, yeah, we'll bring this character back. I just I Don't know the way he was portrayed in the show. I just never.
Speaker 2:I was fine the show, the show just so.
Speaker 3:He's the way that like he would just be like like I am the immortal iron fit and like he's like Constantly like holding himself to this like high standard, but then he just like goes out there and kind of doesn't hold himself to a high standard At least that's what I remember, cuz he's a goof-eye, but yeah, and I I feel like the immortal iron fish should not be a goof. I feel like so different podcast ever.
Speaker 2:When we talk about iron fist, which will never happen.
Speaker 1:Bro, I'd like to come with young Avengers, so that makes three. Three would Well, it's right, kamala Kate.
Speaker 3:I don't think Tyler's coming echo. I think I was in no.
Speaker 2:You're not coming. I truly don't think that goes gonna be okay, um, it's I go you got, you got Cassie Lang.
Speaker 3:whatever her, I don't know her hero name but set her up. Ironheart, if they.
Speaker 2:And then hey missy. They got folks kid. They got Dr Strange chick doors got a kid they got the doors, kid, they got this kids, they got I.
Speaker 1:Think in America, wait, why does kids don't exist?
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 3:Don't think those, I don't think those two would be part of young Avengers, I think. I don't think. I think America chop.
Speaker 2:Is.
Speaker 3:I think America Chavez and Cassie Lang. What's a oh would be the next most likely combo for Kate and Kamala, for they drop the seed for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the black dude, black Iron man, I mean Captain America, oh.
Speaker 3:The young one not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I couldn't think of his name.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah that would be cool.
Speaker 2:And kid Loki like, yeah, the initial shows, like Ted, I feel like that's what they're like dropping.
Speaker 3:They're just like kids. So we got. So we got a plan for later and we could pick whichever one we want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took. Yeah, so I want to sell that after Christy. I'm like man, they're finally, finally making it real Kid.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:Don't know about that, I'm a kid but it's a possible. If you're like actually you say what about girl, girl?
Speaker 3:Yeah, are we gonna see a school girl in the MC.
Speaker 2:Oh is this, is this your game.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm like the best support, I think squirrel girl.
Speaker 2:I, I think, invincible.
Speaker 3:I don't know if that's I think I have not watched some of those like younger Animated, you know for kids Marvel shows, but I think squirrel girl is in one of those like Animated shows, Hmm they. I mean, they could you never know.
Speaker 1:Only time will tell it's miles more Alice. All right and that's, that's it for us folks. We're talking about echo. Anyone have any last words?
Speaker 3:I was my house.
Speaker 2:That's just race to live action.
Speaker 1:John, he's literally, got literally a kid in.
Speaker 3:Marvel's workforce.
Speaker 1:He's in college, so he's stuck in the spider-verse world. He ain't coming over here, all right no last words for me.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for listening last words.
Speaker 2:Oh Loki podcast please, that's it. Thanks for watching listening.
Speaker 1:When you make us a new logo. All right, thanks for listening. Follow us on our socials and.
Speaker 2:Our socials check us.
Speaker 1:They'll be in the description and then, how do I? Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:I, I say that, I say that and that's content brain, and I actually don't even know what our socials are.
Speaker 1:It's cuz we're it does oh wait, do we not have socials?
Speaker 2:I remember talking about this.
Speaker 1:now we do but because you guys are hating on the name, there's all right, we're just gonna end it here Later folks, I